process what they have done, they will do that next week. >> kevin cullen, bill flur ee, couldn't have gotten through this week without you guys. really appreciate it. msnbc's live coverage continues. thank you for joining us on what was absolutely astonishing, incredible day of news, incredible week of news,en unbelievable, improbable and remarkable resolution to this five-day long manhunt. this is the scene in watertown, massachusetts moments after it was announced that the standoff was over, following the apprehension of suspect number 2, dzhokar tsarnaev, alive and in police custody at this hour. nbc news has obtained this video of an ambulance leaving the scene. the suspect has not been myrrh

an di -- mirandaized. and broadly asserted by the obama administration, tonight the president spoke of what appears to be the end of the first chapter of this national episode. >> in this age of instant reporting, tweets and blogs, there's a temptation to latch on to any bit of information, sometimes to jump to conclusions, but when a tragedy like this happens, with public safety at risk and the stakes so high, it's important that we do this right. that's why we have investigations. that's why we relentlessly gather the facts. that's why we have courts. that's why we take care not to rush to judgment, not about the motivations of these individuals, certainly not about entire groups people.

>> after a day in which the greater boston area was in lockdown, a virtual ghosttown, nearly as far as we can tell, unprecedented. less than an hour after the curfew was lifted this was the result. >> a man had gone out of his house after being inside the house all day bading by our request to stay inside. he walked outside and saw blood on a boat in the backyard. he then opened the tarp on the top of the boat and looked in and saw a man covered with blood. he retreated and called us. >> in a day of staggering details, the detail of a guy leaving his house after total lockdown, seeing blood on his boat and deciding the thing that he wanted to do was peel back the tarp on that boat to find a bloody man in the back and then call police is one of the incredible details from today. joining us now, nbc news investigative correspondent michael isikoff from watertown. the thing i think everybody wants to know, i don't know if

you have access to this information, you and i were talking three hours ago, the suspect appeared to be pinned down in the boat in the back of a house. he was bleeding. there was a huge police presence. the suspects we think had been responsible for the death another police officer. it seemed impossible that he would come out alive and yet he did. do we know how that happened? >> well, no, we don't. i was on the street this evening where that -- where the house was, where he was holed up, talking to the neighbors who went through quite a harrowing experience themselves, getting ready to emerge from their homes when they got the instructions from governor patrick that it was safe to go back on the streets, it was okay to go back on the streets and then suddenly hearing that gunfire and having to rush back in, no, we don't know. we do know that the police and

s.w.a.t. teams used extraordinary tactics, the flash bangs, which were quite loud and designed to rattle the suspect. they're used in situations like this. it was several hours in which he was surrounded. we were told that a negotiator at some point was brought in. we don't know whether he played an active role or not in coaxing him out. but how he was able to survive as long as he did, how he was able to hold out against this massive police presence as long as he did is just one of the many unanswered questions about this. >> yes, from what we know, he was injured in the gun fight that happened, the deadly gun fight, 200 rounds spent, multiple ieds engaged it appears, the gun fight parentally from what we know and has been reported killed his older brother, suspect number

one, tamerlan tsarnaev. he was hiding in a boat underneath a tarp after escaping on foot for the hours of the lockdown. michael, what i think is so fascinating is that there came a moment in the afternoon where i think it began to seem like the trail had been lost and how long could they keep the lockdown going? you can't keep people indoors indefinitely. it seemed like the condition was because this guy's on the loose you have to stay indoors. it was ironically letting people go back outside that led to him being captured. >> actually, although you can argue that had people been outside, he never would have been able to walk down that very quiet, small street and holed up

in that boat. i was struck by, how did he get there? i walked down the street. it's off a main thoroughfare in watertown. it's a small street, a lot of homes on it. a bloody man, wounded man walking down that street in this situation would have caught the attention of anybody. and it may well be, actually, because everybody was inside and told not to leave the house that he was able to walk down and somehow find a place to hide off the beaten track. >> i think -- >> in the retroactive analysis -- >> it may be because people came back out that he finally got spotted. i doubt he would have been able to get there if people were able to walk around the street and go about their normal lives. >> it's a fascinating thing to consider when we retroactively analyze what has happened in this week. i think right now people are almost uniformly praising law

enforcement, particularly for the improbable and remarkable -- >> absolutely. i drove through watertown and it's a festive atmosphere, people cheering and waving american flags. there really was this -- not just sense of relief but sense of celebration and gratitude toward law enforcement, right after the announcement that he had been taken into custody, when people were cheering every police officer, every police car that drove by. and you could tell that police and the fire and the law enforcement, all the law enforcement, first responders who were being cheered appreciated it. it was a real sense of community and a real genuine sense of gratitude that the public had towards the public safety people who did their best to keep them safe. >> that was an incredible moment. people had been cooped up in their houses all day in a tense state of fear.

even coming out of the television screens you could feel the waves of catharsis. >> we have spencer ackerman, the senior reporter from the blog, the danger room. this is astonishing. i really did not think we would be in the situation we are. now, roger, how surprised are you that this ended up resolving in the way that it did? >> well, more than anything, i'm pleased and relieved because we have him in custody and that will allow us to begin the process to answer the why question. but i have to tell you, chris, i thought last night after the fbi news conference, this was going to go either really fast or it was going to take an enormous amount of time, an eric rudolph type scenario. it is remarkable. some of the quickly changing

events and how they played out as you just talked about be, the person went outside and saw tsarnaev in the boat, it boggles the mind. now comes a longer phase, that's what we're about to get into. >> this is the next phase, spencer. >> it's about to settle from euphoria into acrimony. >> the traps were sprung for a big high-stakes fight about what we do with someone that we do apprehend under these circumstances and we are going to see that now. >> that's right. one of the amazing things that you've actually seen over the last couple days has been something of a, you know, particularly with the way this ended up today, a validation of the law enforcement approach to terrorism. you didn't really see much of a mill t militarization of what was out on the streetlights in boston.

there was once a big prediction from the pentagon's ied people, you'd have to have the defense department play a major role in support of federal law enforcement. that didn't really happen. you had minimal pentagon military assets out on the streets. and now comes the question of will the political process be able to handle dealing with a captured terrorist through civilian means? >> right. will they take the baton from law enforcement to essentially prosecution, roger, right? >> well, that's right, chris. boy, i wish we could take a deep breath and give it 24 hours before we get 23450 this. i know who's kidding who here, right? i think there is going to be a civil court process as pete william has talked about. he's not been mirandaized yet but he's going to be. they'll use the public safety exception for as long as necessary. there will be the usual chatter about that. frankly, that's white noise.

he will be prosecuted in a civilian court and the long process of building the case, judicial case through the forensics and investigative work and the chain of evidence is going to be incredibly solid because of what we've seen so far over the past four days of the investigation. >> can i press you on one point there? >> yes. >> the reason we can't take a deep breath, let me explain why this is the question at the moment. the things we have confirmed about the suspect are the suspect's name. we know quite a bit about the suspect thanks to a social media presence and the reporting that's gone on. we know the suspect is in custody. we do not know the suspect's health at the moment. what we do know are reports that the suspect has not been mirandized. the public safety exception is pursuant to a supreme court ruling that under certain circumstances when public safety is involved questions asked of a

suspect apprehended can be admissible in court even if they are asked before miranda and the rights are read. someone asked where's the gun? they pointed to where the gun was. that was allowed in the criminal proceeding. how long does that public safety last? abdull abdull abdullah, the christmas day bomber. >> it will depend in part on the health of tsarnaev and how quickly they'll able to get answers from him. in the way he's coe herein and understands the questions and engage with him. i'm not trying to be cavalier about it. >> i'm not accusing you of that.

>> this has been upheld by the court system. i believe the obama administration has proven and they're quite confident they will go down this route and they'll be in good shape when the prosecution begins. so when it's been done in the past, it's been about imminent threat, if you will, about whether or not abdul matullab knew about another bomb. there will be a period of time here. >> that's interesting. i want to the reset for folks watching at home, if you're just tuning in, if you've been following the news today, an amazing day has come to a conclusion, an amazing week that has arked from the horrible tragedy we saw on monday afternoon at the boston marathon and has ended in a backyard boat underneath a tarp in the town of watertown, massachusetts,

probab franklin street. that american citizen, dzhokar tsarnaev, has been apprehended. after a firefight parentally with the police in the wee hours of the morning, possibly there all day, underneath that tarp bleeding. taken alive, in custody, by federal officials now. joining us now is nbc correspondent kate snow from watertown. i can't imagine what the mood is like right there, kate. >> reporter: it's calming down at this hour. but a couple hours ago web there were people cheering, talking about the boston police and cheering them on as they drove by. every time a unit would go by, there would be an eruption. i think it's just a sense of relief tonight. as you can imagine, it's been

tense. last night, that shooting that you mentioned erupted on the quiet streets of watertown. people watched out their window as gunmen were fighting with police, shots were ringing out, 200 rounds went down. i talked to people today who had children around who were protecting themselves, hiding under tables. it was a very, very tense situation and this morning, everyone was put on lockdown, in this town and five other communities, including boston, the city of boston, mass transit was shut down, schools were shut down. it was not a normal friday here. people were on edge. people were worrieded that perhaps the remaining suspect had ammunition, had bombs, had all kinds of things. so tonight there's just a gigantic sense of relief, chris. >> thank you so much, kate. we are expecting that things will remain to be celebratory and calm. the mood that came from public officials tonight at a press conference was very much one of closure and the president as well. we are going to talk more about what happened today, what is

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joining us now, ron allen, live from beth israel hospital. what is the latest there? >> reporter: the suspect is here at the hospital. you can see behind me there's a heavy police presence out front. this is the west clinic center, the back of this building is the emergency room and when we pulled up here, about an hour or so ago, there were at least

several dozen police officers in the back guarding the entrance to the emergency room. not very strong show of force. they were just there. it was clear we were not allowed to get anywhere near that part of the facility. what we know from the press conference, the boston police commissioner is that he is in serious condition, we believe based on what some sources have told us he sustained a significant amount of blood loss. we know that the person whose home he was near stumbled upon the body and opened the tarp and saw the very bloody figure there. we don't know how and relevan y relevantly -- really what condition this man is in after 20 hours or so on the run. just an incredible night in watertown. we were able to get fairly close to the scene as all this was going down. it was eerie situation, because there was a helicopter overhead.

and then there were some bright lights in the neighborhood. for the most part it was quiet, desserted. there were a few people walking the streets and all of a sudden, once this happens, huge celebrations, hundreds of people in the streets. it was cathartic. it was a unique situation. in all my years i don't think i've seen a situation where a community has poured out onto the streets to embrace the men and women who were there to protect them. there was a feeling of relief, catharsis catharsis, and there were officers from all over the commonwealth of massachusetts. as we were driving through watertown, over the river to boston and here to this hospital, there were a number of street corners where we saw hundreds of students, it looked like, just cheering every vehicle that went by, even our

vehicle even though we weren't law enforcement. >> they love you, ron. >> reporter: a feeling of jubilation, this is a serious situation, of course, that still has to unfold with the suspect here in the hospital. >> ron allen at beth israel hospital where the suspect is currently being treated. thank you. former atf special agent james cavanaugh is joining us. i want to talk to you and spencer about the remarkable pace of this investigation, particularly the decision which now seems to be the key decision in the investigation. which was the decision that was made at 5:00 p.m. yesterday. >> it was incredible. as much as there's been a truism in law enforcement about enlisting the public's help, there's been -- >> that's the genesis of the wanted poster. >> exactly. >> the iconic wanted poster is the first version of crowd sourcing that happened in this. >> new twist, new medium on an

old phenomenon. nevertheless, sometimes law enforcement doesn't always have the impulse to take full advantage of what the public might have to offer. in this case, something like 27 hours after they released the photo we have this outcome, a tremendous amount of outpouring from the public, people's memories getting jogged, more photos coming in, more tips coming in telling law enforcement who these people are and where they might be. >> do we have james cavanaugh? >> yes, i'm here. >> how much was that a standing operating procedure and how much was that a risky or innovative or bold choice to come forward with the photos at that time? was that a tough call in any way? >> we talked about that on the air before. i was for it. because i think it works. we use that tactic in the sniper case, put out the tag number

when we had the federal firearms warrant for the snipers. we knew we'd get them quick, within 12 to 15 hours. on the unabom case, i was on and off that for 17 years. i had an fbi friend who said if he was an only child he would have never been caught. it was his brother that gave us the manifesto that was released -- the fbi released the manifesto and then his brother recognized the manifesto. you're exactly right by saying leveraging. this is all transpired. when i started in the pless, we rotary phones. i'm a pinball guy. now it's a digital world. you have to leverage this stuff. it's remarkable. law enforcement has to be in the digital age. here's how you break the big case. the sniper, eric rudolph, the murrah building, here's how you break a big case, the boston marathon bombing.

this is my own personal formula. >> that's why you're on. >> strong leadership. political leadership and law enforcement leadership. okay. you have the white house, you have the governor. you have the political leaders across the spectrum. they're supporting you. that's huge. you have to have supporting commanders. the bomb squad, agents on the street. but the commanders have a key role in the leadership of the case. strong leadership. the next thing you have to have are resources. whenever you get a case this big, you can get a lot of resources. i remember saying send us another 150 agents on the sniper case. if you want the case solved you have to send the agents. resources. now, the third thing is an either/or. and that is broad public support

or specific intelligence. it's leadership, resources, in this case it was broad public support. in the capture of bin laden it was specific intelligence. >> right. >> no public support in pakistan but you had specific intelligence. >> somewhat different attitude towards u.s. law enforcement in the u.s. rather than pakistan. >> i was talking to the fbi agent who started boston's first join the terrorism task force. among the things he was amazed to really talk about is that back in the '80s and '90s, you simply didn't have everyone walking around with a miniaturized and exceptionally powerful surveillance tool that could then be called upon to turn a fleeting moment of existence and a memory that might fade into data that can be harvested and analyzed. that was quite an amazing thing from his perspective about u

ultimately knowing what that gets you. >> the existence of that data, the existence of the data in the public sphere, the data being sent to police and the way in which the kind of crowd sourcing amateur investigation was intersecting with, sometimes derailing the official investigation, the way that things that were spotted on an internet thread would end up in an official's e-mail which would then end up back reported out. >> we have lessons about how this might look going forward as a new model manhunt. the first is the difference between a crowd sourced investigation and crowd source daughter. >> right. that's a very key -- >> crowd sourcing an investigation is called a witch hunt. that's mob justice. you saw that in a variety of ways, some of which were on the cover of new york city tabloids this week, some of which were on

new york -- >> most. >> crowd sourcing data is a different phenomenon because there you really do give a tremendously well leveraged volume of information to people who know how to sift it, people who know how to analyze it and can actually act on it. >> i like the aspect of that as well. i think which is tremendous. all this data is not in the hands of the government. >> right. >> i mean, it's in the hands of the citizens. this is a great place for it. >> right. >> if the marathon goes on, the government doesn't have all this data in everybody's phone. and they shouldn't have it. >> you know what, james, that's a great point. what we've seen in other places is we've seen -- there's an amazing scene unfolding right now. we're looking at boston common. this is live reaction. there are the ubiquitous photos. this is moments ago in boston

common, the eruption of celebration as folks come out into -- >> sure, as soon as he's through here. >> come out into the open air, take to the streets, let out a sigh of relief and exultation. you see an american flag being waved, more than one. as they take boston common, it looks like a gorgeous night in boston. i imagine the bars in boston will be doing a brisk business this evening. james cavanaugh, thank you so much for your time and expertise. i really appreciate it. i'll be right back. >> thanks, chris.

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i'm chris hayes here in new york. along with spencer ackerman. we've been discussing the turn of events in which dzhokar tsarnaev has been apprehended by police and is now in custody. he's in a hospital being treated for wounds sustained in the gurn fight with police in the wee hours of this morning. it's been a truly remarkable 30 hours in this case. exhilarating and terrifying at times and deeply saddening with the loss of the life of an m.i.t. police officer. let's talk through what has been a very confuse iing chain of evs and what we know with the release of photos and the suspects in the boston marathon bombing. this is what happened. those photos released at 5:20

yesterday evening. suspect number one and suspect number two. they asked the public for help in identifying them and tracking them down. that was 5:20 p.m. yesterday. by 7:08 nbc's pete williams was reporting that the fbi was getting calls from people claiming to know the identity of the suspects. at 7:18 someone posted this high resolution photo to an online running forum that appeared to show one of the suspects leaving the scene just after the explosions. that new photo quickly went viral. by 11:13 p.m. that photo had been verified with the "new york times" reporting it had been taking by a boston marathon runner. in the meantime, a shooting had been reported on the m.i.t. campus. m.i.t.'s emergency alert system first reported that shots had been fired on campus at 10:48

p.m. at 11:20, m.i.t. students were being warned to stay indoorps as law enforcement agencies were investigating. by 11:30, massachusetts state police were reporting that an m.i.t. police officer had been shot on campus. >> well, brad, we have just learned from cambridge police that an m.i.t. police officer has been shot. >> that officer was taken to massachusetts general hospital where he was pronounced dead. he's since been identify as 26-year-old patrol officer sean collier. he served on the m.i.t. force since january of last year. he really looked at police work as a calling. he was born to be a plifr. shortly after the shooting of officer collier, police received a report from nearby of an armed car jacking of a black mercedes suv by two men. the car jacking victim was help in the car for about 30 minutes and ultimately released unharmed

at a cambridge gas station. that will be an amazing interview when that person is found. one of the suspects is seen here on security footage from that gas station. at 11:18 p.m., surveillance video showed the same suspect at a watertown bank of america atm. nbc's pete williams reported the suspects were trying to use the debit car stolen from the car jacking victim and managed to take out $800 before the card was denied before exceeding the daily limit. at that point, the pursuit started, leading them into watertown. they were reporting that explosive devices were being thrown from the car during that pursuit. and then came the gun battle. >> what did you hear? you just heard something? >> i'm behind the car. i'm hearing multiple gunshot. we're with police right now and

we're trying to stay back right now. but we are surrounded by police. we've heard multiple gunshots. i'm standing behind the car right now. it's not a good position to be in. the officers are putting on bulletproof vests. >> many people listening to the police scanner heard the firefight in realtime. >> they have explosives, some type of grenades. they're in between the houses down here. >> shots fired. shots fired. loud explosion, loud explosion. shots fired! shots fired, shots fired! >> you said they paid cash at the shell gas station and then

fled towards harvard square. >> andrew kitzenberg who lives at the scene of the shootout live tweeted the entire thing with some amazing photos. at 12:55 a.m. he captioned this photo, captioned shootout outside my room. pd claiming ieds on the street. everyone stay off laurel street. 1:21, site of the bomb explosion on laurel street. bomb detectors are out. then at 10:23 a.m., bullet hole through our wall and the chair. the folks covering the shootout had connected with kitzenberg via skype. >> gunfire took place for at least a few minutes. while they were utilizing

explosives and when it came closer to the end they used what seemed to be a larger bomb. from my view, from my bedroom window on the third floor of our building it was about -- it was about 35, 40 feet away and it looked to resemble a pressure cooker, what i've seen from other pictures online in the last few days. i saw them light this bomb and the picture you're showing right now is actually the site where the explosion was and they lit it and that would be the bomb squad who were inspecting the site. they threw it towards the officers. it only got 15 to 20 yards down. it won't close to the officers but it really created a significant decoy. in other words, smoke that covered our entire street. at that point one of the shooters ran towards the officers while still engaging in gunfire. and while he was still shooting

at them, a few seconds later, the second shooter got back into the suv and turned it around and went full speed into the police officers. just before he started charging at the officers, the first shooter that was running at them was taken down. i didn't have a clear view into how that happened. i couldn't tell where he was shot or tackled. the footage makes it seem like he was shot. but i couldn't see it clearly. at that time, the second shooter was basically charging into the officers' vehicles at full speed. and went right in between two or three officers' cars, taking out their doors and windows and sideswiping them. ultimately getting through them and moving past our block and out of my view. >> as a sign of how chaotic the

scene was, the person you saw lying prone on the ground was not in fact the suspect. meanwhile, another neighborhood onlooker posts what looks to be cell phone footage of the shootout as it was happening. >> [ bleep ]. shooting, right in front of my house. >> at some point during that shootout between the suspects and law enforcement, a boston transit officer was wounded. he's been identified as richard

h.donohue. the globe spoke to a friend who says donohue has a 7-month-old son. they graduated in the same police academy class. at 2:00 a.m. the fbi released more photos of the suspect, includingi inin inin ining one together during the marathon. seven improvised explosive devices have been recovered so far, some in water town and some at the suspect's house in cambridge. police issued a warning to the continued danger to the public and law enforcement. >> the light skin, white male. should be considered armed and dangerous, possibly with an adult rifle and exploisive. >> six minutes later, the dispatch confirmed he was on the loose and he was suspect number two from the marathon bombing.

>> the party outstanding with a while hat was identified in the photos. >> at 504:16 a.m., the man known as suspect number was dead. he'd been taking to beth israel deaconess hospital. hospital officials said he had multiple gunshot wounds, burns and blast wounds. law enforcement officials said he had an improvised explosive device into his chest. suspect number two escaped by driving a stolen suv through the police officers at the end of the block. tamerlan tsarnaev is the one who was killed and dzhokar tsarnaev escaped and was the subject of a citywide manhunt. boston public schools suspended all activities and local

universities and colleges including harvard, boston university, boston college and m.i.t. canceled classes. by 5:45 a.m., the massachusetts bay transportation authority sut down all public transit throughout the city. at 8:00 a.m., massachusetts governor duval patrick urged residents to shelter in place. the city with a population of 625,000 people resembling a ghosttown. lockdown continued throughout the entire day. boston police explained the continued danger of the situation. >> if anybody approaches a suspect matching the outstanding party, use extreme caution. a trigger was found on the body of the individual currently in our custody. indications are strong that the current outstanding party may be wearing a suicide vest.

>> the amtrak train was stopped in norwalk, connecticut. the train was searched the at the behest of the boston police but nouned nothing. authorities conducted a door-to-door search for dzhokar tsarnaev, the suspect from the marathon bombings in the white cap. the search continued over the next nine hours with no sight of the suspect. at around :00 p.m., massachusetts police announced officials decided to lift their standing request that people stay indoors and then just about an hour later, nbc's carrie sanders reported shots fired near his location on scene in watertown.

[ gunfire ] >> law enforcement rushed into an area around franklin street in watertown at 7:15 boston police asked residents to remain inside their homes. just before 8:00 p.m. they believe they locked the second suspect in a boat in the backyard of a home. they believe he was wounded and still alive but had been there hiding. our local affiliate reported that dzhokar tsarnaev was alive and in custody. they were asking for a medic on the scene. that news spread quickly and within minutes people were on the streets cheering. we'll be right back.

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all right. what you are seeing are people celebrating outside fenway park, of course, where else would you

go in boston if you wanted to celebrate in the streets, an end to a week-long incredibly tense ordeal for the city of boston. they are out in force tonight. some folks will be collectively drinking their be collectively drinking their faces off in a little bit. let's bring in emma gilligan and joshua foust. i wanted to talk to both of you because of the ethnicity, the nationality and the background of these two brothers. they are ethnically chechen. can you give us insight to the part of the world the brothers parents are now in.

why were they there and in kyrgyzstan before? explain to me that trajectory. >> we're dealing with the northern caucus. we have chechnya in the middle. the reason why it's important here is because it really by radical chechens to form. significantly -- >> let me stop you right there. there were two chechen campai s campaigns. the has been a long standing source of tension. there was a somewhat successful

chechen war for independence against russia in the 1990s. that was brutally squashed by vladmir putin. >> the status was left unresolved in the region. he decided he was going to squash the radical segment. how we have the consequences of the radicals. >> there was a secular nationalist uprising. what has happened is the spread of the resistance.

joshua, that's where the early speculation. if indeed the suspect apprehendsed is the person who did this, hwe have no idea his motives. the context does strike me as important. there's a context of radicalization in chechnya even if it has no connection to these boys. >> right. it goes back even to the first chechen war. they let him go when the war ended. this family, the tsarni family has experienced the same displacement since the second world war.

they really internalized this. that's part to have why they found enclaves in central asia. these communities were set up because of those displacement policies in the 1940s. that's why you see a larger number of them moving to these different enclaves and moving onto there. this sense of displacement is incredibly important to try to understand where these two brothers were coming from and why they were feeling isolated enough to launch this kind of attack. >> i want to play some sound. there were a number of interviews with their relatives, each up with more jaw dropping than the last. i guess we'll start with the uncle which was the first one which was just astonishing denounceuation outside the door

of his home in maryland. here he is. sort of standing up for, refusing to allow the taint of these two brothers actions to fall upon his group collectively. take a look. >> were they caught up in the fighting of chechnya? >> no. it has nothing to do with che chechnya. >> what do you say to dzhokhar right now? >> if you're alive. turn yourself in and ask for forgiveness from the victims, from the injured and from those who left as for forgiveness. we're not requiring forgiveness in this family. he put a shame on our family.

he put a shame on the entire chechnya ethnicity. they put that shame on the entire ethnicity. >> you see the defensiveness there. the question was because chechnya has been a hot bed of violence and exported people. >> i think the uncle's argument was compelling. i think he was making an impassioned argument. one cannot also deny that the chechen experience has infiltrated the region. we do see the exploitation of chechen fighters.

we saw it in bosnia and we're seeing it in syria. we no the turks were there. very small minority but essentially they help shape the radicalization. >> i want to play one more clip to get your reaction because it contains a fascinating piece of information. this is the mother of the brothers. we don't have that yet. she was interviewed yesterday. she w do we have it? >> three to five years they knew what my son was doing. they knew what actions and what sites on internet he was going. they used to come home. they used to come and talk to me. they used to tell me that -- they were telling me he's really serious leader and they are

afraid of him. they were scared of my eldest son. they always told me he's a leader. they're afraid of him because they think that he is a leader. he talks about islam a lot. they were talking to my son. they called me and told me my son is an excellent boy. they have no problem with that. at the same time they were telling that he's getting information in extremist sites. >> that was an incredibly confusing moment in which the mother said he's not an extremist but the fbi said he's an extremist and cleared him. they questioned the older brother at the request of a

foreign agency. how common is that? >> it's pretty common in terror cases. i guess question guess what the country is. it was russia. this afternoon a transcript of a phone call that president obama had with president putin where he thanked the president for unspecified cooperation in the boston case. it's a safe bet that they were already investigating chechen issues in the u.s. and they might have given us information that led to the men's capture. >> there's never been and i want to make very clear, we have literally no idea, the suspect in custody is a suspect right now. his actions are alleged. i want to be very clear about that. he's a suspect. he has a court of due process. he's innocent until proven guilty in the eyes of the law, but there is no precedent for any kind of chechen terrorism or bomb